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Kilometers Davis's avatar

This is well said. I'd just nudge in a clarification, not in opposition, but to draw out what I think you're circling: we aren't dealing with separate epistemologies sealed off from each other, but with a shared field of material history. The recurrence of mutual aid, communal land, horizontal governance, these aren't cultural flukes or evidence of borrowing. They're what people come up with under certain conditions, especially when they’re not being crushed by extractive states or private property regimes.

Marx, Kropotkin, Bakunin, they didn’t conjure theory from the void. They were observing, formalising, sometimes misreading, often abstracting patterns that showed up in Indigenous and pre-capitalist life all over the world. When Kropotkin talked about mutual aid, he was looking at Siberian clans. When Engels riffed on kinship, it was via Iroquois social structures. They were theorists, but they weren’t blind.

So rather than seeing theory as something that takes from Indigenous life, it might be more accurate to say it tries to name what Indigenous life already knew, and sometimes still remembers. And far from being a betrayal, engaging with theory can make that knowledge portable. It lets it move, lets it confront other systems on equal footing.

We shouldn't trap Indigenous insight in particularism. There's nothing in communal governance or non-ownership that says it must stay local or pre-contact or culturally fenced. Those are universal political truths forged in specific places. The point is to see them for what they are: not just traditions to protect, but models to expand.

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Peter Shepherd's avatar

Thanks

I've been trying to explain this to marxist friend. And yes, the primitive part of the linear evolution of "production". Oh my god. Most modern anarchists I see (on Substack) seemed to have just quietly moved on from all that - regen ag, Villaging, spreading changing permaculture, and listening to indigenous. The arguments seem to impass - massively - around worldviews. Indigenous vs the machine. It's a divide that seems unable to be crossed. I understand their world and, like you said, it's just rationality, enlightenment, dissection, disconnection. But they don't seem to be able to step out of it to consider anything else. Even saying the indigenous perspective is "just an ideality, a fantasy in someone's head" and that "you're talking about primitive communism, where they only had enough production because they needed to survive. They didn't have any surplus to suppress other classes." And therefore evolve, they mean. And then I hear that "perfect communism" is when people share everything and workloads are shared and no one is over anyone else." Gobsmacking. That's the theory? You need this capital history evolution to get to what was already there so you can call it something else? But now there's factories. Perfect. The response, " So you want to go back to primitism and work yourself to death and live in squalor?'

Oh. Dear. I keep trying to find a bridge, but, so far, I get scorn and a repetition of the Marxist jargon real. Burgoiis. Means of production. You know. Sorry for the rant, it's both frustrating and shocking. But I'm open to learning from it. I respect both babies and bathwater.

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